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Offline Ferrari Fissatore

  • Soap Dodger

  • Joined: Jan 2007

  • Drives: its obsession
  • Location: under its skin
snow bound are you?

stir crazy?

Take some helium and lighten up!

You asked a Ferrari question, you received a better answer than anyone at Ferrari would bother to give you!



Offline allanuber


  • Joined: Aug 2007

  • Location: Sydney
  • Name: Al

Jeehzus. Toys. Pram. Throw.

Don't let the door, roof, hood hit you on the way out.

I think the reason your question hasn't had a useful answer is that no-one can see why you'd really want it beyond impressing children. Goes in the same bucket as, "Why doesn't my 360 have:"

- a fully adustable steering wheel
- cruise control
- remote unlock for the front boot
- remote start to get the aircon going before i get in
- a Lexus badge on it and a extra fire extinguisher for when the italian electrics for all this shit catch on fire and burn out my eyeballs.

C'mon, do it!



Offline deangpsx8

  • I Am Legend
  • I am legend in my own lunchbox

  • Joined: Dec 2007

  • Drives: Everyone Crazy
  • Location: Don't know I'm Lost
  • Name: Dean
  • www: Intellitrac.com.au
Regarding your Ferrari question, i reckon it's all about reliability and safety.

I have been designing electronics for car manuafacturers for 20 years.

It is not an easy task to open and drop the roof by remote control.

For example..BMW have window lift controlled by depressing the remote button continuously to raise or lower the windows.  As soon as you release the button on the remote control the process stops.
This is a safety feature just in case a kid has their head in the window.
For those searching through ADR's  it is also covered in ADR 42 from memory.

In addition the window motors need to have a electronic circuit to stop the window and wind it back slightly if the window is is blocked by a kids head!  The electronics detect a sine wave produced by the motor when it is rotating. As soon as the motor stops rotating the sine wave disappears and the electronics cut power to the circuit.  In the old days  they used to use a thermal overload fuse  which was not as reliable  and sometimes did not trip  and was dangerous.

So the issue is as follows - to do the same on a rag top requires this type of electric stall detection to be installed on many motors aiding the raising and the lowering of the roof. 

It gets expensive and reliability becomes an issue as the roof ages and mechanicals become stiffer.

The other issue is the remote control.
A remote signal drops in and out and becomes extremely unreliable in sending a continuous signal to a receiver in the vehicle.  So you could potential have a situation where the roof starts and stops. This is quite annoying.

In Australia the frequency band used by the remote control is used by many "continuously transmitting" devices  such as baby monitors and hence this causes interference. 

There are other technological issues such as random code hopping remote technology which is not quickly and reliably decoded by the receiver. Sometime you need to press the remote 2-3 times for it to operate, become the random code hopping needs to re synchronise.  The algorithm is very complex  so that it is virtually impossible to scan and decipher the next code in the sequence.

There are many cars such as subaru and jeep (that i personally know of) that have suffered reliability problems with remote controls in Australia due to these issues.

And by the way our Melbourne trams generate electro magnetic frequenices which cause all sorts of problems to remote control reception and also have been known to interfere with 360 and Masserati 3200 electronics.

In short, it is a safety and reliability issue that i reckon Ferrari does not want the headache.
It is also a very strict ADR that needs to be passed.

The Germans are far more advanced in this type of electronic design, and you will find that the Benz, BMW, Audi and Porsche being high production vehicles have sorted these problems through experience gathered in the market place over the years.


 
Persistence Beats Resistance



Offline Ferrari Fissatore

  • Soap Dodger

  • Joined: Jan 2007

  • Drives: its obsession
  • Location: under its skin
Regarding your Ferrari question, i reckon it's all about reliability and safety.

I have been designing electronics for car manuafacturers for 20 years.

It is not an easy task to open and drop the roof by remote control.

For example..BMW have window lift controlled by depressing the remote button continuously to raise or lower the windows.  As soon as you release the button on the remote control the process stops.
This is a safety feature just in case a kid has their head in the window.
For those searching through ADR's  it is also covered in ADR 42 from memory.

In addition the window motors need to have a electronic circuit to stop the window and wind it back slightly if the window is is blocked by a kids head!  The electronics detect a sine wave produced by the motor when it is rotating. As soon as the motor stops rotating the sine wave disappears and the electronics cut power to the circuit.  In the old days  they used to use a thermal overload fuse  which was not as reliable  and sometimes did not trip  and was dangerous.

So the issue is as follows - to do the same on a rag top requires this type of electric stall detection to be installed on many motors aiding the raising and the lowering of the roof. 

It gets expensive and reliability becomes an issue as the roof ages and mechanicals become stiffer.

The other issue is the remote control.
A remote signal drops in and out and becomes extremely unreliable in sending a continuous signal to a receiver in the vehicle.  So you could potential have a situation where the roof starts and stops. This is quite annoying.

In Australia the frequency band used by the remote control is used by many "continuously transmitting" devices  such as baby monitors and hence this causes interference. 

There are other technological issues such as random code hopping remote technology which is not quickly and reliably decoded by the receiver. Sometime you need to press the remote 2-3 times for it to operate, become the random code hopping needs to re synchronise.  The algorithm is very complex  so that it is virtually impossible to scan and decipher the next code in the sequence.

There are many cars such as subaru and jeep (that i personally know of) that have suffered reliability problems with remote controls in Australia due to these issues.

And by the way our Melbourne trams generate electro magnetic frequenices which cause all sorts of problems to remote control reception and also have been known to interfere with 360 and Masserati 3200 electronics.

In short, it is a safety and reliability issue that i reckon Ferrari does not want the headache.
It is also a very strict ADR that needs to be passed.

The Germans are far more advanced in this type of electronic design, and you will find that the Benz, BMW, Audi and Porsche being high production vehicles have sorted these problems through experience gathered in the market place over the years.


 

that's all very well and good, but Ferrari (like Porsche) use Bosch... and their ECU's are made in Clayton, just up the road from my shop  ;)

No, the answer is............


 just 'cos they're cheap arse cost cutters making crap products that look great.



Offline deangpsx8

  • I Am Legend
  • I am legend in my own lunchbox

  • Joined: Dec 2007

  • Drives: Everyone Crazy
  • Location: Don't know I'm Lost
  • Name: Dean
  • www: Intellitrac.com.au
Not quite the same electronics.

You never see a german car stuck on the side of the road because a tram EMF has interfered with the ECU.

Modules may be similar...but there is a lot more to consider in electronic design.

For example a
Crank Angle Sensor dies on a Benz..the car is stuck
If the same happens on a BMW, it loads defaults and starts.

Persistence Beats Resistance



Offline WOLF


  • Joined: Feb 2009

  • Location: Sadly not California
deangpsx8 
Thanks for taking the time to try and answer my question, appreciate you taking the time to give a civil and grown up reply.



Offline Ferrari Fissatore

  • Soap Dodger

  • Joined: Jan 2007

  • Drives: its obsession
  • Location: under its skin
Yeah, it's nice of Dean, but unfortunately, his well written post doesn't actually answer it correctly either... it's just his "reckoning" as he clearly posted.

window lift obstruction can be sensed with load cell. it does NOT rely on loss of sine wave... it's too late by then. Load cell is a mechanical device which reads weight/load etc and tells the ECU to trigger a reverse action to release the obstruction.

price isn't the reason either. A Holden or Ford has all the hardware necessary to do it too.

it's not due to reliability either. When have Ferraris ever been concerned with that?

It's not the frequency thing, That's easily overcome. I put remote locking on  a Testarossa last month... kit cost $180, comes with multi freq hopping security system etc etc etc.

it's not safety either. Why make a car that can do triple the speed limit if you care about roof safety?

As I said, somewhat dismissivley, admittedly... it's a gimmic, and Ferrari don't do that kind of gimmic.

FWIW, My Chrysler Voyager has key fob operated sliding doors, it's a great gimmic that BECAUSE IT'S THERE, I use a lot. But it is still a gimmic.

So, as I said, lighten up. You compared a Porsche to a Ferrari.... it NEVER make sense.




Offline WOLF


  • Joined: Feb 2009

  • Location: Sadly not California
I'm cool....just a bad day yesterday, must be on the rag or something.



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