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Offline jim501

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Great pics 360C. What's behind the 275 in first  photo?



Offline 360c

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One hell of a transformation, always good to hear the story behind the car

I don't think I'm giving away any secrets, the photos have been all over the net.

The car has some great provenance. Like all the major Oz Ferraris in the early days, it was ordered by the importer Bill Lowe (W.H.LOWE & CO) for his own personal use. He didn't keep it for long and the next owner was Bib Stilwell, who would have paid circa $17,300 Australian (original list price) for it. Then it went through the hands of Con Panikol, Adrian Ashton, Graeme Quinn (Father of Brendan Quinn), Paul Radford (owner of Technical Book Shop in Swanston Street) then my father, then David Rodd (of JB Hi-Fi fame), then to Warren Daly (founder of the Daly Wilson Big Band), and now with Duttons.

The great thing about classic cars is the owners and the stories behind them, you don't get that with modern "consumable" cars.
Brendan Quinn used to "borrow" the car when his parents were out, taking it out for spirited drives before putting it safely back in the garage. By the time it got to Paul Radford it was original; but by his account, pretty tired. The front body was moving around on broken chassis supports so Paul decided to restore it himself, during which it was painted dark red. The restoration was covered in detail the Ferrari Club magazine. I used to come into Paul's iconic book store regularly and we would chat about the 275 and cars in general. He was a real enthusiast and forever regretted selling the car; but my father was very persistent. When my father bought it in 1984, it was the culmination of a long held dream for him. He paid $110k for the then 17yr old Ferrari. Seems cheap now, given that it is worth something like $5 million Australian. The reality is that was a ton of money at the time, a brand new 512BB was $105k and the average house price was much less than that. So far from cheap, and it was 17 years old !! People forget that when they talk about how cheap something was, and how they should have bought it at the time :p
He actually used the car too, despite its value, doing everything from concours to rallies and many, many track days.
He owned it until he passed away in 1989, knocking back an offer of $2 million without a 2nd thought a few months before he died. He said the money was irrelevant (even though it was a significant asset in the big picture) and he enjoyed the car far too much to ever part with it. You don't see that attitude much these days where the mega cars are just another investment and are never used by owners. After he died the car stayed in the family and I was fortunate to spend a lot of time behind the wheel. It came time to sell it in about 1997 and I sold it to David Rodd for about $440k (from memory) as the market had long collapsed by that stage.
Still a ton of money (it bought a house in Toorak at the time), and by then the car was 30yrs old.  David bought it to keep, as he does with a lot of his stuff; but he only owned it for about 18 months in the end. According to David, Warren Daly asked if he could buy it and was told no. He apparently said, "Well can I come down and have a look at it anyway?"  David showed him the car and Warren made him an offer that he couldn't refuse, as they say. The money was apparently immediately transferred and Warren drove it home to Sydney. The car was very rarely seen in Daly's ownership and it appeared in public once in a blue moon.
I didn't think the car would ever come up for sale; but after about 2010 I would periodically hear that I could buy my father's old car for "$X" by various people. The $X was always all the money and then some, so I never seriously contemplated it. Obviously that proved to be a bit of a mistake :p

Anyway Duttons ended up buying it in late 2012 (?), the accident happened not long after and it has been in restoration until a year or so ago.

There you have it, a brief history of 275 GTB/4  S/N 10385   :)
 



Offline 360c

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Great pics 360C. What's behind the 275 in first  photo?

Well that's a 275 with an even bigger story- 275 GTB S/N 07307   :eek:

The story AFAIK is that the owner loaned the car to his son for use on his honeymoon. The car was fitted with cheap and incorrect tyres as a cost saving measure and they had a blowout at high speed. The car left the road and hit a tree, some height off the ground. Both the son and his new wife were killed in the accident.

Les Miller bought the wreck and made a new body in a kind of a weirdly shaped 250 TR replica. It looks odd because ADR rules at the time stated that the headlights had to be  a certain distance off the ground.
The remains of the original body hung on the wall of Miller's Willoughby workshop for many years. When I knew the car it had a bend in the steering wheel, a grim reminder of the double fatal accident.



Offline Condor Man

  • Is it a Bird?? Well, sort of, Yes.... 300kph+ club
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Well that's a 275 with an even bigger story- 275 GTB S/N 07307   :eek:

The story AFAIK is that the owner loaned the car to his son for use on his honeymoon. The car was fitted with cheap and incorrect tyres as a cost saving measure and they had a blowout at high speed. The car left the road and hit a tree, some height off the ground. Both the son and his new wife were killed in the accident.

Les Miller bought the wreck and made a new body in a kind of a weirdly shaped 250 TR replica. It looks odd because ADR rules at the time stated that the headlights had to be  a certain distance off the ground.
The remains of the original body hung on the wall of Miller's Willoughby workshop for many years. When I knew the car it had a bend in the steering wheel, a grim reminder of the double fatal accident.

Truly an amazing story.
May the Horse be with you....



Offline Condor Man

  • Is it a Bird?? Well, sort of, Yes.... 300kph+ club
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Was he on the left side (driving up the cds)?  As last time I was there I saw a nice long bonnet 911 in purple on blue jay as well. I think I posted a pic of it here

On the right 2 doors up from where that spiker in always parked outside in a carport.
May the Horse be with you....



Offline Condor Man

  • Is it a Bird?? Well, sort of, Yes.... 300kph+ club
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They didn't have any choice about restoring it thanks to an unfortunate accident that was no fault of their own. It would have been foolish to restore it in anything but the original colours.

Its a great restoration which was done in New Zealand. The car is now better than it ever was in my memory at least.

Wow, I have never seen that photo before.

Clearly it hasn't hurt the cars value.
May the Horse be with you....



Offline tdc911


  • Joined: Apr 2006

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Speaking of which there was a contour at the end of my street yesterday at the Greystone Mansion and I saw a truly amazing 275 and 250... just being loaded up on trailers. Unfortunately,  I wasn't able to get to the event and now I am kicking myself.

Back to the yellow. I with MHH. I really like this yellow too.

Speaking of MHH, I also drive past a house yesterday in Blue Jay Way in the Birds streets and there was a guy with a white 911r with green stripe and a matte grey 918. WTF!

Am surprised you didn't go to Luftgekühlt!



Offline 360c

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Truly an amazing story.

Lots of the older cars have interesting stories behind them.

Another interesting story that pops out of the recesses of my memory involves Mr Smith Senior (of the Lambo Smiffies) and a
275 GTB.  As I recall he ordered a 275 GTB new and arranged for a tourist delivery at the factory. He turns up at the appointed day and picks up a run of the mill steel 275 GTB. So after the hand-over he takes off on his holiday and promptly crashes it. What to do, what to do?  So he goes back to the factory and asks do they happen to have another 275 GTB available? Well Mr Smith, we have this alloy bodied 275 GTB that we might be able to sell...... At the time there was an option to have an alloy body rather than the normal steel if you had enough swing with the factory and were prepared to pay the $700 or so extra cost - on a $12k car remember. It wasn't done very often for a couple of reasons - the alloy body was thin and not very durable. You ran the risk of denting the panels if you lent against it the wrong way or closed a boot/bonnet in the wrong place. Secondly, it was costly and this was a competition option and the 275 GTB was intended to be a street car, not a racer. If you wanted a race car you bought a 275 Competizione with the added benefit of a hotter engine. So the option was rare, expensive and not at all practical in the real world.
So Mr Smiffie thinks "Gee, I don't really want an alloy bodied car at all; but if I want another 275 GTB now I guess this will just have to do".   So that is how he ended up with one of the 60 or so alloy bodied street cars that were made out of a total 275 production (all variants) of just over 1000 cars. Today the alloy bodies cars are worth between 2 and 3 times as much as the steel bodies cars - and Smiffie Snr didn't even want it at the time  :p


Then there is the 365 BB that now wears a 512 BB body. It was crashed badly early in its life and sold as a wreck at auction. Bought by a well known FCA member who then ordered a complete replacement body from the factory. When they cracked open the crate at Lance Dixons they found a 512 BB bodyshell. WTF? Apparently the factory decided that they had finished 365 BB production so lets just take a short cut and send the current 512 BB body instead and not tell anybody....... Got to love Italians :p

Then there is the 512BB that was fataly crashed in Kings Cross by a drug dealer in the culmination of a high speed pursuit. This was during the last price boom in Ferraris and the wreck (little more than an engine/rear frame and rear suspension) was sold for crazy money ($350k  :scratchchin: ) and a rebuild commenced. The end result was a really gorgeous car that went on to win an FCA concour; but it took a decade and some serious cash to get there. Still owned today by the guy who restored it.

I could go on and on there are so many stories. Again, thats what makes the older cars so interesting.



Offline goober

  • AE's Tame Race Driver
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Lots of the older cars have interesting stories behind them.

Another interesting story that pops out of the recesses of my memory involves Mr Smith Senior (of the Lambo Smiffies) and a
275 GTB.  As I recall he ordered a 275 GTB new and arranged for a tourist delivery at the factory. He turns up at the appointed day and picks up a run of the mill steel 275 GTB. So after the hand-over he takes off on his holiday and promptly crashes it. What to do, what to do?  So he goes back to the factory and asks do they happen to have another 275 GTB available? Well Mr Smith, we have this alloy bodied 275 GTB that we might be able to sell...... At the time there was an option to have an alloy body rather than the normal steel if you had enough swing with the factory and were prepared to pay the $700 or so extra cost - on a $12k car remember. It wasn't done very often for a couple of reasons - the alloy body was thin and not very durable. You ran the risk of denting the panels if you lent against it the wrong way or closed a boot/bonnet in the wrong place. Secondly, it was costly and this was a competition option and the 275 GTB was intended to be a street car, not a racer. If you wanted a race car you bought a 275 Competizione with the added benefit of a hotter engine. So the option was rare, expensive and not at all practical in the real world.
So Mr Smiffie thinks "Gee, I don't really want an alloy bodied car at all; but if I want another 275 GTB now I guess this will just have to do".   So that is how he ended up with one of the 60 or so alloy bodied street cars that were made out of a total 275 production (all variants) of just over 1000 cars. Today the alloy bodies cars are worth between 2 and 3 times as much as the steel bodies cars - and Smiffie Snr didn't even want it at the time  :p


Then there is the 365 BB that now wears a 512 BB body. It was crashed badly early in its life and sold as a wreck at auction. Bought by a well known FCA member who then ordered a complete replacement body from the factory. When they cracked open the crate at Lance Dixons they found a 512 BB bodyshell. WTF? Apparently the factory decided that they had finished 365 BB production so lets just take a short cut and send the current 512 BB body instead and not tell anybody....... Got to love Italians :p

Then there is the 512BB that was fataly crashed in Kings Cross by a drug dealer in the culmination of a high speed pursuit. This was during the last price boom in Ferraris and the wreck (little more than an engine/rear frame and rear suspension) was sold for crazy money ($350k  :scratchchin: ) and a rebuild commenced. The end result was a really gorgeous car that went on to win an FCA concour; but it took a decade and some serious cash to get there. Still owned today by the guy who restored it.

I could go on and on there are so many stories. Again, thats what makes the older cars so interesting.

my ol lambo was one of 300 cars that some ol mate had in Mittagong, he bought it new and used it on the farm, when it came to auction it was full of hay bales and shit. He did a head gasket and used silicon instead of buying a VRS gasket set, he painted it silver with a mop. Took two years resto and is now back in its original colour of pistachio green and electric blue leather and alcantara interior. The only item i didn't restore was the air con unit as the 2.5 litre V8 is gutless and having an old piston style air con unit would mean the car would need another engine to power it.
Meeting women on the Internet? Remember, the more similarities u “magically” have, & the more she agrees with u, the fucking crazier she is.



Offline TRS4


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my ol lambo was one of 300 cars that some ol mate had in Mittagong, he bought it new and used it on the farm, when it came to auction it was full of hay bales and shit. He did a head gasket and used silicon instead of buying a VRS gasket set, he painted it silver with a mop. Took two years resto and is now back in its original colour of pistachio green and electric blue leather and alcantara interior. The only item i didn't restore was the air con unit as the 2.5 litre V8 is gutless and having an old piston style air con unit would mean the car would need another engine to power it.

Pics of this some what "barn find" would be amazing if you could share!



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