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Offline looney


  • Joined: Mar 2007

  • Drives: VW Beetle
They just phoned me to advise that by the end of the year there will be a new setup where power wall and inverter will be an integrated system to allow for off grid setups.



Offline 360c

  • 300kph+ club
  • Chief Muppet Wrangler @ Drugs.R.Us Badlands Sector

  • Joined: Apr 2006

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What's the reason for increasing your home's capacity? Is it for financial reasons i.e. store more energy and reduce your power bill?

There is no economic rationality with my set up for the average person. I am enlarging my home system to 20kw and 48kw of battery storage because I want to run off grid while running
two Teslas as daily drivers off the system. Each car will need 20kw a day as an allowance. I only have enough suitable  roof space for 20kw of panels and that won't generate enough peak power to charge the car (one at a time on alternate days), hence the huge battery storage which will be used during charging.

I get tax deductibility advantages and the system will save me $15k of petrol a year, plus the savings on home power bills. Even so I am looking at circa 8 years pay back. For a normal home user the system would be ridiculous in the extreme.

The work system will use every single bit of power generated by 60kw. Payback will still be about 8 years.

Plus I am a bit geeky and enjoy playing around with this project :D



Offline 360c

  • 300kph+ club
  • Chief Muppet Wrangler @ Drugs.R.Us Badlands Sector

  • Joined: Apr 2006

  • Drives: Slowly and carefully
They just phoned me to advise that by the end of the year there will be a new setup where power wall and inverter will be an integrated system to allow for off grid setups.

The ONLY time I would use the Tesla setup is if it was on display rather than being hidden from view like my setup is.



Offline David B


  • Joined: Dec 2015

  • Location:
  • Drives:
next door neighbour just designed and installed 100Kw system for a dairy.  $150K I think he said.
Using the Flow batteries not Lithium ion.   saved about 10K off the price and much longer life guaranteed.



Offline ACP

  • Lives in a Metro Tangerine

  • Joined: Jun 2008

  • Drives: McLaren
  • Location: Sydney
There is no economic rationality with my set up for the average person. I am enlarging my home system to 20kw and 48kw of battery storage because I want to run off grid while running
two Teslas as daily drivers off the system. Each car will need 20kw a day as an allowance. I only have enough suitable  roof space for 20kw of panels and that won't generate enough peak power to charge the car (one at a time on alternate days), hence the huge battery storage which will be used during charging.

I get tax deductibility advantages and the system will save me $15k of petrol a year, plus the savings on home power bills. Even so I am looking at circa 8 years pay back. For a normal home user the system would be ridiculous in the extreme.

The work system will use every single bit of power generated by 60kw. Payback will still be about 8 years.

Plus I am a bit geeky and enjoy playing around with this project :D

Ok cool makes sense. Quite interesting now with electric cars.



Offline looney


  • Joined: Mar 2007

  • Drives: VW Beetle
The ONLY time I would use the Tesla setup is if it was on display rather than being hidden from view like my setup is.

i agree, but obviously there is a call for a system to be off grid and they're working on it.



Offline 360c

  • 300kph+ club
  • Chief Muppet Wrangler @ Drugs.R.Us Badlands Sector

  • Joined: Apr 2006

  • Drives: Slowly and carefully
next door neighbour just designed and installed 100Kw system for a dairy.  $150K I think he said.
Using the Flow batteries not Lithium ion.   saved about 10K off the price and much longer life guaranteed.

It could be done for $150k for sure; but every system is site specific and as individual as a fingerprint. My solar guy has done an analysis on the redflow batteries and the gel packs were preferable for most applications according to him.



Offline 360c

  • 300kph+ club
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  • Joined: Apr 2006

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In a perfect world this would be great; but I reckon there are too many hurdles :


Batteries to help grid become 'the internet of energy'

by Angela Macdonald-Smith


Rather than facing a "death spiral", the electricity grid is set to become the backbone of the "internet of energy," with the help of batteries – as long as policymakers get on board.

The concept that the electricity network is set to become an expensive white elephant with everyone self-sufficient in producing and storing their own power has disappeared.

In its place is the conviction that the rise of batteries will help place the transmission and distribution system as front and centre of tomorrow's electricity supply system, connecting consumers in a smart network of generation and storage devices and allowing them to trade with one another, and control household appliances remotely.

"By 2030, the grid has become necessarily a much smarter place, it's become more like the internet," said Simon Hackett, chairman of battery developer Redflow Energy, at an energy storage conference in Sydney on Wednesday.

 The country's first Tesla EV owner, entrepreneur Simon Hackett, laments the incentives for EVs and the rooftop ...

"It's gone from dumb to smart, it's internet smart – internally resilient. What you get in an economic sense is a marketplace."

Storage systems could be seen as a threat to the grid and a contributor to the "death spiral" but instead they will have the opposite effect, according to Sunverge Energy's Australian and New Zealand general manager Philip Keogan.

"At Sunverge we are big believers in the grid, and we see huge relevance in the emerging transactive energy market," Mr Keogan said. "We consider the grid to be the internet of energy."

He pointed to forecasts from Bloomberg New Energy Finance that 50 per cent of energy generation will be "behind the meter" by 2040, so in rooftop solar and battery systems in houses rather than centralised power stations. Locally, some 2.5 million batteries are expected to be deployed in Australia by 2025.

Networks will take on a role as "a facilitator" of energy trading transactions, carried out by companies that aggregate power generated by household rooftop panels and trade it, according to James Myatt, chief executive of emerging retailer Mojo Power

He said networks would provide "significant value" in creating a marketplace, but said a major transition would be required to get there, both in terms of technology capability and in pricing. Mr Myatt said demand tariffs for energy taken from the grid would probably be phased out, to be replaced by a "fee-for-access" model.

"You'd pay for that as you'd pay for a toll road," he said, adding that existing business models for networks were not sustainable.

Mr Hackett said regulatory reforms were still required to promote the uptake of batteries and smooth the way for the grid to move towards a new future. Otherwise, the debate would get captured by those with entrenched interests working to keep the status quo.

"What needs to shift is the attitude as to what the grid is about," he said. "It's about we as a country having a high-level policy that says the grid is going to evolve into distributed entity. We need policy in general to start to include storage in the mix."

He warned that without such an overarching policy direction, the industry would run into a plethora of regulations in the next five to 10 years that will disadvantage the use of batteries by accident.

Regulations prevent anyone other than a power company from trading power on the grid, making it impossible for individual households to participate. Meanwhile, households looking to sell energy from a battery would lose their feed-in tariffs from their solar panels.

"Right now, with the begrudging exception of solar panels, consumers aren't allowed to be energy stations," Mr Hackett said.


AFR



Offline S4Simon

  • The Rubber King of Adelaide

  • Joined: Jul 2006

  • Drives: Something a metre high
  • Location: Not the Badlands
I've got the best of both worlds. Selling back my excess solar at 0.50c/kWh and a few redflow shares in my pocket. All going well thus far.
I've been rich & I've been poor...

Rich is better



Offline mondi

  • Resident Bogan
  • Moderator

  • Joined: Jul 2008

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That would be so cool having a shared power grid like that but they will never let it happen. And you would need a fair battery network to do it.



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