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Offline futurism


  • Joined: Jan 2009

  • Drives: Regretfully sold my GT3
  • Location: Adelaide
  • Name: David
im due to fly adelaide to shanghai via sydney on tuesday morning departing at 6am, all on qantas for a holiday
looking doubtful I suppose
I would actually be looking forward to it if I was just going to work like any other week, I enjoy a bit of drama when its not my holidays impacted for which I have paid for non refundable accommodation

might find out how good the travel insurance I have is, its bought through Qantas but actually sold by QBE
that might pay for the accommodation but coordinating time off work is a bigger drama than the lost money

starting to worry about my huge bank of frequent flyer points too, I was burnt years ago with ansett but I have over 600k points with Qantas currently



Offline dodger

  • Tommy Gunna

  • Joined: Dec 2009

  • Location: Melbourne
Read Dick Smith's argument to see how dire the situation is. Qantas is already paying above average industry wages and the unions are asking for much more. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with it. Even without these demands, Qantas' future isn't looking great in the environment of low cost airline carriers.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/high-cost-kangaroo-of-qantas-cannot-continue-says-dick-smith/story-e6frea6u-1226180292111

The risk in giving into unions demands is Qantas going broke or being put in the hands of foreign companies which would result in jobs being lost with operations going offshore. There would go our "flying kangaroo", what would be left of the airline that was Australian? Of course Qantas may be exaggerating how "extreme" the demands are but they do have problems in the future.

Thats interesting , if thats true Qantas have a very big vested interest in a takeover to keep it competitive, there will be mass job losses if this happens but it will have to happen to get cheaper labour.



Offline 986986


  • Joined: Oct 2008

  • Drives: 997.2 S PDK; '12 Cayenne Diesel (family bus)
  • Location: Sydney, Coolum
Bring it on - Joyce isn't going to back down on ridiculous union demands that would kill the business, facts is that the unions will fall over as most union workers arn't keen on being out of pocket based upon out of date, unrealistic union boss demands........show how most unions have checked out of any form of business reality.



Offline andecorp

  • Biggest daddy in the park 300kph+ club
  • No idea how to make her happy!

  • Joined: Jan 2007

  • Drives: too many cars for one ass
Bring it on - Joyce isn't going to back down on ridiculous union demands that would kill the business, facts is that the unions will fall over as most union workers arn't keen on being out of pocket based upon out of date unrealistic union boss demands........show how most unions have checked out of any formal of business reality.
:thumbsup:
You make something idiotproof, they'll make a better idiot.



Offline andecorp

  • Biggest daddy in the park 300kph+ club
  • No idea how to make her happy!

  • Joined: Jan 2007

  • Drives: too many cars for one ass
Think about how unrealistic the union demands must be if Qantas would rather shut down than accept their demands. To me, it seems that if Qantas agrees to the demands, they would be out of business, so Joyce just said "F**k it, just shut the whole thing down now - what's the point of waiting for the unions to kill it?"
You make something idiotproof, they'll make a better idiot.



Offline dodger

  • Tommy Gunna

  • Joined: Dec 2009

  • Location: Melbourne
I don't even know what the demands are, no one's talked about it , but it's known that Joyce wants the airline in Asian hands and this action is just what he wants, bring the share price down, get a takeover offer, boom boom, maintenance done off shore, foreign pilots and other staff that work for far less. But frankly I don't want the guy who works for less maintaining the plane that I'm in.



Offline Marcus G


  • Joined: Jan 2010

  • Location: Perth
But frankly I don't want the guy who works for less maintaining the plane that I'm in.
+1



Offline 986986


  • Joined: Oct 2008

  • Drives: 997.2 S PDK; '12 Cayenne Diesel (family bus)
  • Location: Sydney, Coolum
These are the facts don't let the emotional "I don't want some overseas guy fixing my plane" cloud your judgement

The international side of the Qantas business is being dragged down by cost structures a hefty 24 per cent higher than rivals, by competition from airlines run by oil-rich governments and by geographical challenges.

Our national carrier is an end-of-the-line airline, not one operating from the world's major hubs. So the decision by Qantas to cut unprofitable routes and to build two new airlines in major Asian hubs using 110 new narrow body aircraft makes eminent commercial sense. In fact, it's good old common sense.

Unencumbered by logic, the unions are the biggest drag on our flying kangaroo. Take, for example, the pilots' union demand that all pilots on Jetstar and other Qantas affiliate airlines be paid the same as Qantas pilots. This is sheer economic lunacy. Jetstar operates in the very different, low-cost leisure market. The low-cost airline has excelled because it has negotiated different enterprise agreements with its staff that enable it to compete favourably with other low-cost airlines.

Now check out the terms of your average Qantas pilot. They receive higher salaries than most long-haul pilots across the globe and fly fewer hours, receive six weeks' leave and 25 sick days. They get cheap flights and upgrades to the pointy end of the plane. But they want more - for starters, a 2.5 per cent wage increase for the next three years, free international economy tickets, upgradable to seats closer to the cockpit and $1 million to fund their union bosses each year.

The pilots' greedy demands will endanger the low-cost Jetstar business and burden Qantas with costs its international airline cannot afford. Simple mathematics tell you this is not good for customers or jobs.

Consider also the deceptive claims from the highly educated engineers' union that also likes to use the more highfalutin label of an "association". Their emotive claim for "job security" is a demand to entrench outdated and inefficient maintenance practices that most other airlines have long since reformed. To get a sense of the backward-looking unions, the engineer's union demands would prevent Qantas from updating its maintenance in line with new regulations set down by Australia's Civil Aviation and Safety Authority regulations.

And don't fall for the unions' wicked use of emotional tricks. Steve Purvinas, the boss of the engineers' union, said last month: "Alan Joyce does not want Australian aircraft engineers inspecting aircraft because we find things wrong with them; he'd rather take his chances that nothing goes wrong at 40,000 feet."

Apart from ignoring the crucial fact that 90 per cent of maintenance of Qantas aircraft occurs in Australia, is Purvinas really making the knuckleheaded claim that the 82 per cent of passengers who travel overseas on an airline apart from Qantas are willing to take their chances that nothing goes wrong at 40,000 feet? This arrant nonsense highlights why the union movement has only itself to blame for its slow demise.

Try this on for size, too. The pilots' union and the engineers' union have raised questions about the $200m loss suffered by Qantas International. And hot on their heels, the headline-hunting independent senator, Nick Xenophon, wants "forensic scrutiny" of the accounts.



Offline dodger

  • Tommy Gunna

  • Joined: Dec 2009

  • Location: Melbourne
Thats the first detail of their claims I've read anywhere.

If it's that clear cut why doesn't Alan Joyce stand up and say WHY he grounded the fleet, for what specific reason, because what claim/s was unreasonable, spell it out, if the claims are that crazy he might get some sympathy, as it stands he looks real bad.



Offline 986986


  • Joined: Oct 2008

  • Drives: 997.2 S PDK; '12 Cayenne Diesel (family bus)
  • Location: Sydney, Coolum
Dodger those claims have been in the public domain since March.

Joyce finally pulled the pin yesterday after the unions backed down from a promise they made in the AGM that there would be no more industrial action whilst final negotiations where underway.

The day after the AGM the unions announced renewed action - AGAINST the promises made in the AGM so he had no further place to stand.......this has all been in the public domain mate......

http://www.smh.com.au/business/deal-or-no-deal-joyce-rolls-the-dice-20111030-1mq52.html#ixzz1cEfkISVp



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