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Offline smileone96


  • Joined: Oct 2008

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  • Location: Adelaide
In my humble opinion the "carbon tax" is simply a thinly veiled exercise in wealth tax and social re-engineering

Can someone please explain if the idea is to reduce co2 why is the matrix for payment tethered to income bands as apposed to crbon usage.......Could it be this is an example of a great way our current government can introduce a wealth tax if you will for those earning over $150,0000.
The Flood Levy, The Carbon Tax, cutting down the Private Health Insurance rebates, changes to Land Tax provisions, the increased LCT, - all created to discriminate against anyone who for whatever reason earns an above average income - whether it is because they decide to work harder, are smarter, better educated, more charismatic, or whatever reason... It is easier for the Government, especially in this country, to penalise success, and be applauded by the masses for doing so. I read some of the comments about Li Ka Shing on Adelaidenow, slamming him for his success. Discrimination against successful or otherwise "wealthy" people is one of the few discriminations that are lauded and approved of in Australian society, which I think is a sad reflection of where we are headed as a country.



Offline eddievanhalen


  • Joined: Dec 2009

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  • Location: melbourne
Ditto..................I'm sure this has probably been posted on AE before but it never hurts to revisit.


10 men decided to have a business lunch once a week. They always met in the same restaurant and the bill was always, $100.00, for all 10 men. If each man was responsible for his share of the bill that would be, $10.00, each. The men decided to divide the bill based upon their ability to pay. Using an agreed upon formula the following payment arraignment was worked out based upon income.

Men 1-4 who made the least amount of money paid nothing.

Man 5 paid $ 1.00

Man 6 paid $ 3.00

Man 7 paid $ 7.00

Man 8 paid $12.00

Man 9 paid $18.00

Man 10 paid $59.00

After several weeks the owner of the restaurant told the men that because they were such good customers he was reducing the bill by $20.00. Their delimina was how to divide up the, $20.00. If each person got the same amount then the first 4 men would be getting money back but they never paid anything for the dinners. After much discussion and no resolve the owner offered the following suggestion which they all agreed to.

Original Payment New Payment $ Amount Saved % Saved

Men 1-4 paid $ 0.00 $ 0.00 $0.00 0%

Man 5 paid $ 1.00 $ 0.00 $1.00 100%

Man 6 paid $ 3.00 $ 2.00 $1.00 33%

Man 7 paid $ 7.00 $ 5.00 $2.00 28%

Man 8 paid $12.00 $ 9.00 $3.00 25%

Man 9 paid $18.00 $14.00 $4.00 22%

Man 10 paid $59.00 $50.00 $9.00 15%

Once out side the men began to argue about the settlement. Man 5 said he only got, $1.00, while Man 10 received, $9.00. Men 1-4 were upset because the received nothing. They said that the cut only benefited the rich and the poor got nothing. They were upset so they beat up Man 10 and left him. The next week they met for lunch as usual except man 10 did not show up. When the new bill arrived the men discovered that between them they did not have enough money to pay even half of the bill.

In this story we see a simplified version of the Federal Income Tax.Any time you hear of a tax cut and the media tells you that the wealthy are getting all the money, remember they are paying the taxes.







There's all sorts of great ideas out there re tax - there's some good ideas in "Henry" which was either cherry-picked or downright ignored ..........I have a great paper on a flat 30% tax system but none of it will ever get up because of politicians ideas on what will sell.   What they need to work on is not lying to people and policy-by-focus group/poll ,  but actually do some real policy work and find some communication skills.

Of course any flat tax idea would be hard to explain to the masses , as the higher earners must pay more tax!! It's seemingly never occurred to people that a flat % does charge more tax as you earn more without the disincentives of a progressive scale.

Anyway...........we're all dreaming hoping for some thoughtful tax policy discussion inside the current government.




Offline mondi

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Cliff notes???

This thread looks like too much reading......


Anyway, I shouldn't have to pay this stupid tax, I have Solar Panels!!!!!!!!



Offline Wattens

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While everyone keeps whining like a baby about the tax, the smart ones have figured out already how to benefit from it...
You can say I'm wrong, but my garage doesn't agree with that statement!!!



Offline eddievanhalen


  • Joined: Dec 2009

  • Drives: 2010 jaguar xkr
  • Location: melbourne
While everyone keeps whining like a baby about the tax, the smart ones have figured out already how to benefit from it...

The whole socialist ideal gives me the shits but yes...........the real entrepeneurs will already be onto this.   The good thing about investing/trading for a living is that there's always an angle to work on - today I was saved from a very bad day by positions in carbon credit related and renewable energy businesses that I had accumulated in anticipation.

Meanwhile back at the ranch , the bond vigilantes of the world have Italy in their sites tonight and further emergency meetings are occurring in Europe as we speak.  If they manage to destabilise Italy, Spain etc..........a little carbon tax might be the least of our worries.



Offline mondi

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Meanwhile back at the ranch , the bond vigilantes of the world have Italy in their sites tonight and further emergency meetings are occurring in Europe as we speak.  If they manage to destabilise Italy, Spain etc..........a little carbon tax might be the least of our worries.

He will win.........

Image



Offline scud

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my company emits around 10,000 tonnes of carbon per year. if i look at solar panels for power generation, the cost is huge and the return on capital will take too long to be viable and the amount that will be generated will be lucky to run my lights. even with this tax coming in, and due to the industry i am in, i can't drop my power consumption by 50%, 40% or even by 5%. i've already shut off, changed, managed all i can to reduce power consumption due to the rise in power. all that will happen is that i will have to pay $230,000 in tax that comes off my bottom line. so i will introduce a carbon tax levy, or cut jobs, or not give to charities or probably do all as some of my customers won't pay the levy. the suppliers to the retail grocery chains will have added pressure like me, try to pass the cost onto retailers who won't cop it, yet charge mums more coming through the front door buying groceries saying prices are rising due to the carbon tax.

take extra tax off me to build nuclear generated power stations so my children's children will have zero emmisions in the future, don't tax me just cause bob brown has an agenda.

if gillard had a majority, there would be no carbon tax.

if abbott hadn't of rolled turnbull, krudd would be pm and we would have a ETS.



Offline amgsl55

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Offline mondi

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my company emits around 10,000 tonnes of carbon per year. if i look at solar panels for power generation, the cost is huge and the return on capital will take too long to be viable and the amount that will be generated will be lucky to run my lights.


But solar shouldn't be a huge cost now - I don't understand why it's still so expensive.....    :?  :doh:



Offline amgsl55

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  • Joined: Feb 2011

  • Location: Adelaide
the suppliers to the retail grocery chains will have added pressure like me, try to pass the cost onto retailers who won't cop it, yet charge mums more coming through the front door buying groceries saying prices are rising due to the carbon tax.

perfectly said.

The knock on effect will big significant.  That is why i earlier said if those that voted the greens in realise the costs which we will all incur would they still vote the greens?

The costs of living has increased over the past few years, people have been getting smarter with their energy consumption and thereby reducing their carbon footprint -  how much more can be done without going silly



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