[cel]

I offer my photographical snapping skills to people on here for nothing, or leave it in their court to donate something to my camera fund.
I'm not too fussed by that because it adds to my portfolio and I get to experience these awesome vehicles...

totally agree, I love car photography and really enjoy being out all day taking pics of exotics. When someone here wants to do a photoshoot I'll be doing what I love and it'll be a great experience for me, and a set of  photo's to add to my collection/portfolio.

I would love to go further into car photography and am just working on my skills so at some point I might get there.

[tdc911]

you wouldnt ask a plumber to fix a tap for you, or a painter to paint you're portrait for you and expect it done for free.... why should photography be any different. i have all the tools to be a carpenter, but i could never build a house. just because people have cameras, doesnt mean they are photographers. its a skill and a talent, dont sell yourself short.

I also wouldn't pay a plumber or painter in advance before the service is performed and without ensuring I am happy with what has been performed. I also wouldn't employ the services of a painter or plumber who hasn't gotten the proper accreditation and who hasn't done the required courses and training. Just out curiousity, what accreditation do you have and what courses have you finished with regard to photography?

Mhh hit the nail on the head with his comment that he purchased a picture because Doctor had added some value. It isn't enough to say that you have spent $15,000 on your equipment, the (potential) client needs to be able to see that added value with the quality of the end product. 

[dkabab]

I also wouldn't pay a plumber or painter in advance before the service is performed and without ensuring I am happy with what has been performed. I also wouldn't employ the services of a painter or plumber who hasn't gotten the proper accreditation and who hasn't done the required courses and training. Just out curiousity, what accreditation do you have and what courses have you finished with regard to photography?

Mhh hit the nail on the head with his comment that he purchased a picture because Doctor had added some value. It isn't enough to say that you have spent $15,000 on your equipment, the (potential) client needs to be able to see that added value with the quality of the end product. 

i think you've missed my point. photography is an artform, not something you can neccesarily quantify.
im not a great photographer, i am always looking at others work and am inspired and in awe. having 15k in gear doesnt make me a better photographer, it certainly helps me get the shot... but a true pro will always out perform someone with a $100 camera.
my reference to a plumber wasnt the accreditation, it was to the paying someone to do work.

for the record i have a degree in multimedia and graphic design.

in regards to paying before the job is done, if and when i charge, its for the completed work, not upfront at the time of the shoot.

[allanuber]

<snip>...
in regards to paying before the job is done, if and when i charge, its for the completed work, not upfront at the time of the shoot.

I think maybe that's where you guys are differing from the 'pros'. These guys run a business - can show examples and have absolute clarity on what things cost, why and examples of who's paid. One of the hardest things I found when starting the business a long time back was setting a fair cost and being confident our services were 'worth it'. A few years down the track and we have a good measure of our competitors and in many ways could/should have gotten more yield based on the value of our work.

[AshSimmonds]

I think maybe that's where you guys are differing from the 'pros'. These guys run a business...

That was my qualifier in the first post: "as a general hobbyist for the occasional gig"

Yeah, I know some pros get pissy at the idea of garden variety photographers getting $ for doing stuff that's just a hobby, but to again touch on the tradie analogy above - how often when we didn't need a 100% professional by-the-book job did we just get uncle Dave who's pretty handy to fix something on our car or install a shower door or whatever?

[allanuber]

That was my qualifier in the first post: "as a general hobbyist for the occasional gig"

Yeah, I know some pros get pissy at the idea of garden variety photographers getting $ for doing stuff that's just a hobby, but to again touch on the tradie analogy above - how often when we didn't need a 100% professional by-the-book job did we just get uncle Dave who's pretty handy to fix something on our car or install a shower door or whatever?

Uncle Dave in the shower sounds creepy.

[tdc911]

i think you've missed my point. photography is an artform, not something you can neccesarily quantify.

I haven't missed your point at all, however, saying a photo is going to cost $x means you have quantified it.

my reference to a plumber wasnt the accreditation, it was to the paying someone to do work.

I know it was, but according to you this is pleasure and not work. I was trying to point out how different the situations between plumbing (where a service is being performed specifically for you) and taking photos at a motorsport event are.

I'm not against charging drivers for photos, as long as the end product justifies the price. I just do not agree with the simple reply 'If you want a photo, you will have to pay for it'.

[dkabab]

So what is your point? If I go to an event and take photos, I should offer them for free to the entrants?

To me at the moment photography is a hobby but something I would love to do full time one day. I do WORK as a photographer at some events and have been paid to do so. I dont pretend to be a pro and don't charge like one either, but my time and tallent is worth something and I can happily justify charging $x for my work.

The more 'photographers' roll over and give away their photos for free, the harder it is for a pro to make money. I know several pro's who have been undercut by amatures wanting just photo credit in return for their photos in a magazine, purely because they were free and the pro wasn't. 

[waz356]

So what is your point? If I go to an event and take photos, I should offer them for free to the entrants?

To me at the moment photography is a hobby but something I would love to do full time one day. I do WORK as a photographer at some events and have been paid to do so. I dont pretend to be a pro and don't charge like one either, but my time and tallent is worth something and I can happily justify charging $x for my work.

The more 'photographers' roll over and give away their photos for free, the harder it is for a pro to make money. I know several pro's who have been undercut by amatures wanting just photo credit in return for their photos in a magazine, purely because they were free and the pro wasn't. 

Hey Dave,

We've never discussed it, but I'd be more than happy to pay for a copy of the pics you've taken of the 356 and 993 - and again when you do the Morgan. I'm pretty sure Justin would also for the pics you took of his 3.2 Carrera.

They're much better than anything I can take myself and I learn just a little more with my point and shoot every time so to mee it's worth it. Just let me know what you want.

Cheers,

Waz

[flamestone]

Any sensible response I would give in this thread is going to be a whole lot of waffle about value-based pricing.

So I'll spare you the babble and just say google it if you want to know more.   

But either way it may not be applicable for the "general hobbyist" as it implies an intimate knowledge of the customer and their values.