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Offline Simonoz


  • Joined: Mar 2012

  • Drives: Old 911's and V8's
  • Location: WA
The 20% VAT on modern cars in the UK makes it prohibitive to export Aussie cars unless a big price difference emerges. Classic cars only attract 5% VAT hence why they are leaving in droves.
Love the 993 RS.
There is already a big price difference between the UK and here, it seems. Two RS's for sale at JZM, RHD Clubsport $630,000 Australian, and a Japanese LHD Touring Spec for $520,000. Both 25,000 miles, clean straight cars. Nothing here has sold for anywhere near those figures yet, but nor have they sold so its like all small markets, in that each time something happens the relative few have got them feel justified having kept something too precious to now use, and the watchers and former owners express regret at not having one, feeling they have missed out.
Im battling with keeping mine, mainly because having got it so perfect, its too perfect to use. I cant seem to bring myself to drive the ruddy thing for fear of ruining it. Its because its black, and so hard to get and keep right. Demented, and I need to really get my act together.



Offline Aircon

  • Master Baiter 300kph+ club
  • Who said it couldn't be done?

  • Joined: Mar 2007

  • Drives: Pork
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
  • Name: Peter
I understand the basic economics of demand vs supply.  But the disparity between an rs and a regular 911 is vast (I mean this for old ones too), and it's not like they're completely different. If were talking a gt1 I'd understand it, completely different car that shares nothing. But cars that are just a version of a car that's much cheaper still doesn't make sense to my mind.

Yeah it's weird, isn't it? Look at the F355ch, which is the equivalent car...the price has gone nowhere.

I love my car. Buy your own



Offline Fil-Ski


  • Joined: Feb 2009

  • Drives: 993TT
  • Location: Adelaide
Yeah it's weird, isn't it? Look at the F355ch, which is the equivalent car...the price has gone nowhere.

The Porsche didn't move for years either. You  just never know when they will start rising. I have noticed however that in Australia it's hard to find a good manual F355 Berlinetta and prices in the UK have begun rising.



Offline robertb

  • Poll Dancer

  • Joined: Apr 2006

  • Location:
  • Drives:
I understand the basic economics of demand vs supply.  But the disparity between an rs and a regular 911 is vast (I mean this for old ones too), and it's not like they're completely different. If were talking a gt1 I'd understand it, completely different car that shares nothing. But cars that are just a version of a car that's much cheaper still doesn't make sense to my mind.
Their unique to drive ,very light and feel that,quick for there day,there is a lot of difference between them and a standard 993.
For the collector wanting one,limited production run and its the last road going Porsche that was walked down the competition department at Porsche.



Offline Simonoz


  • Joined: Mar 2012

  • Drives: Old 911's and V8's
  • Location: WA
They could be the next car to start leaving the country,going by O/S prices ...upwards of 500k for a LHD RS touring ,goodness knows what they will pay for a RHD RS/CS.
Your car looks FAB,I'm trying to think if I have any photos of it when it was new or in 90s..did it ever race?

I bought one new ,the 1st touring to be sold here,ordered it 2 years before production dates.

Not because there gone up in value,its the only car of all quality cars I've owned i regret selling, I ordered mine without the wing ect but with the leather Recaro race seats,which very few touring models had...great cars,never forget a very quick Melbourne cup day drive over to Adelaide for about the last AGP there,K after K sitting on 210/220ks  no one around,great times.
IMO the last great road going Porsche,after these i can't  think of one I'd want to own long term...so light and so different to any other   Porsche made since.

Enjoy.

Rob
I could feel the prices going up as I read your eulogy. You're right of course, they are very different, and nothing like anything since. Its why Ive struggled, even with GT2's and GT3's since, to stay away from them, and now own my second, the RSCS. They feel like they are made of high twitch fibres, always wanting to go. Like a Doberman, especially the RSCS which is more aggressive than the Touring courtesy of its weight and gearing. They don't have high horsepower by modern standards, but I would defy anyone to walk away having driven one hard and feeling like it needs more. It will still whip most things on track, yet its built like a tank. Its the only car I can think of that can do pretty well everything, road or track, and still maintain its feeling of quality construction. Even mine, with no interior trim and caged, is quite ok on the road, albeit noisy. The sad thing now is that most people will never get to drive one because of the rarity and the values, and you really cant understand it until you have, so it becomes just another mythical 911 beast. Im not sure that the value/risk equation stacks up for me anymore, because at heart Im a driver not a collector, so Im looking at letting mine go as Ive previously mentioned here. On the other hand, i might just whack a set of stickies on it and have a crack at the Club Championship, and hang the value. Its probably going to keep going up, no matter how I treat it.  What I do know, is that is no use to me sitting in the shed going nowhere, and I need to stop flip flopping and make a decision.



Offline robertb

  • Poll Dancer

  • Joined: Apr 2006

  • Location:
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The Porsche didn't move for years either. You  just never know when they will start rising. I have noticed however that in Australia it's hard to find a good manual F355 Berlinetta and prices in the UK have begun rising.
re price for most of there life they have been above there new purchase price,the good cars have traded without ever been advertised and there has been a climb in value over a number of years.
its always surprised me that the 355CH has been under valued compared to the 993 RS,perhaps the 993 is held in higher terms in the Porsche community to the 355CH in Ferrari circle's?



Offline robertb

  • Poll Dancer

  • Joined: Apr 2006

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Rob
I could feel the prices going up as I read your eulogy. You're right of course, they are very different, and nothing like anything since. Its why Ive struggled, even with GT2's and GT3's since, to stay away from them, and now own my second, the RSCS. They feel like they are made of high twitch fibres, always wanting to go. Like a Doberman, especially the RSCS which is more aggressive than the Touring courtesy of its weight and gearing. They don't have high horsepower by modern standards, but I would defy anyone to walk away having driven one hard and feeling like it needs more. It will still whip most things on track, yet its built like a tank. Its the only car I can think of that can do pretty well everything, road or track, and still maintain its feeling of quality construction. Even mine, with no interior trim and caged, is quite ok on the road, albeit noisy. The sad thing now is that most people will never get to drive one because of the rarity and the values, and you really cant understand it until you have, so it becomes just another mythical 911 beast. Im not sure that the value/risk equation stacks up for me anymore, because at heart Im a driver not a collector, so Im looking at letting mine go as Ive previously mentioned here. On the other hand, i might just whack a set of stickies on it and have a crack at the Club Championship, and hang the value. Its probably going to keep going up, no matter how I treat it.  What I do know, is that is no use to me sitting in the shed going nowhere, and I need to stop flip flopping and make a decision.
Nice spot to be in ,hard one track life knocks cars about. re the gearing I've always thought the gearing was the same in both RS models,which of course is different to the normal 993 and that the only mechanical difference in the drive line was the the clutch thrust bearing? I loved my car,only sold it to put more money into the racing and to build a garage at home,oh well that's life.i bought mine to replace a 964 Carrera 4 my wife drove,this was to be her everyday car,but she was unable to get it into the hospital car park ie front nose.So it sat most weeks in the carport ,maybe once a month i drove it to work or it went on rural trips,had it 3 years and enjoyed the experience more then any other car before or since.,either owned or driven including 996/997 GT3's.



Offline Simonoz


  • Joined: Mar 2012

  • Drives: Old 911's and V8's
  • Location: WA
Id have to check the gearing charts Rob and they are at the farm. The RSCS feels much zippier. Lighter car, bit more horsepower, definitely more urgent.



Offline robertb

  • Poll Dancer

  • Joined: Apr 2006

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Id have to check the gearing charts Rob and they are at the farm. The RSCS feels much zippier. Lighter car, bit more horsepower, definitely more urgent.
yes lighter,I always thought the engines came from the factory with the same horse power rating ,it was only in there latter years in GT production that they played with Camshaft profile,i can remember talking to Richards at the AGP and he said in years of racing the motor had not been touched apart from fluids.i could be wrong on the hp ratings.
Of course the cars were developed over time and improved.



Offline 360c

  • 300kph+ club
  • Drug Dealer

  • Joined: Apr 2006

  • Drives: Purple People Eater
Rob
I could feel the prices going up as I read your eulogy. You're right of course, they are very different, and nothing like anything since. Its why Ive struggled, even with GT2's and GT3's since, to stay away from them, and now own my second, the RSCS. They feel like they are made of high twitch fibres, always wanting to go. Like a Doberman, especially the RSCS which is more aggressive than the Touring courtesy of its weight and gearing. They don't have high horsepower by modern standards, but I would defy anyone to walk away having driven one hard and feeling like it needs more. It will still whip most things on track, yet its built like a tank. Its the only car I can think of that can do pretty well everything, road or track, and still maintain its feeling of quality construction. Even mine, with no interior trim and caged, is quite ok on the road, albeit noisy. The sad thing now is that most people will never get to drive one because of the rarity and the values, and you really cant understand it until you have, so it becomes just another mythical 911 beast. Im not sure that the value/risk equation stacks up for me anymore, because at heart Im a driver not a collector, so Im looking at letting mine go as Ive previously mentioned here. On the other hand, i might just whack a set of stickies on it and have a crack at the Club Championship, and hang the value. Its probably going to keep going up, no matter how I treat it.  What I do know, is that is no use to me sitting in the shed going nowhere, and I need to stop flip flopping and make a decision.

I don't get the whole hung up on value dilemma.  Current exotics cost the same or more than the 993 RS and most owners use them without too much stress over it. There is an Aventador for sale that has 35000 kms on the clock and its a 4 year old car that cost the best part of a million when new.
Perhaps my attitude comes from my old man. He paid $110k for a 275 GTB/4 in 1983 which was about the cost of a new 512BB at the time. He loved it and he used it a lot in all sorts of events from drive days to track events. Values started to rise a few years later and just before he died in 1989 he was offered $2 million for the car. He refused despite that being a life changing amount of money to him. He loved it and continued to use it in exactly the same manner regardless of the rising values.

Today I use my Speciale whenever and wherever I choose. I would love to be able to get the opportunity to put 50,000 kms on it despite the fact it would cost a fortune in retained value. I couldn't imagine lying on my death bed saying to myself "Gee I wish I hadn't used that Speciale so much, I might have made another $100k". You're dead a long time and it's experiences that you remember,  not money. 
You love your 993 RS, so just use and enjoy it I reckon.



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