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Offline scud

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The stolen car is a 997 GT3RS
He has/had a yellow 996 GT3 road car too.



Offline Ferrari Fissatore

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So what is a "restored car" ?

One that has been returned to original condition THROUGHOUT.

It's perfectly possible to be both original and restored, but quite rare.

It's possible to completely repaint a car, without touching the mechanicals and interior, and still call it original.

If you want to be pedantic over semantics, then strictly speaking there is only ONE original car of any kind ever. All the rest are copies.

In the eyes of the car market there are various levels of originality IMO.  Original can, and almost always does, mean "as factory" foremostly, and then the secondary level of originality is whether it is untouched or not.

If an original car gets a stonechip, and gets a front end repaint that is perfectly done... is it still an original car?

If an original car gets a new genuine OE windscreen, is it still an original car?

If the engine blows up, and the factory supply a replacement and document it, is it still original?

And so it goes on.

If anyone other than numbsculls are interested, I can go on.



Offline 360c

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One that has been returned to original condition THROUGHOUT.
Oh ok, if you insist I'll play  :D
It's perfectly possible to be both original and restored, but quite rare.
You're funny sometimes. Most observers would say the terms "original" and "restored" describe two mutually exclusive conditions. i.e A car can be one or the other; but NOT both at the same time  :p

It's possible to completely repaint a car, without touching the mechanicals and interior, and still call it original.
I would call that a car of original specification that has had a cosmetic restoration.
If you want to be pedantic over semantics, then strictly speaking there is only ONE original car of any kind ever. All the rest are copies.
ME PEDANTIC ?  :scratchchin: Ok, guilty as charged  :thumbsup:
Your example is puzzling. In a series of cars, they are all copies of the original design. The first of the series actually produced would surely be "S/N 1 of X produced"
In the eyes of the car market there are various levels of originality IMO.  Original can, and almost always does, mean "as factory" foremostly, and then the secondary level of originality is whether it is untouched or not.
Conventional opinion of "original" would be a car that is of the exact specification and condition as the day it rolled out the factory gates. Allowable modifications would be limited to the replacement of wear and tear items with OEM parts.

If an original car gets a stonechip, and gets a front end repaint that is perfectly done... is it still an original car?
No it is no longer original. If the stonechip had been left alone it would be original and modern concour standards allow "reasonable" patina as a result of use.

If an original car gets a new genuine OE windscreen, is it still an original car?

Yes, it's an original car. A windscreen is a wear and tear item and it's been replaced with OEM part so all is well.


If the engine blows up, and the factory supply a replacement and document it, is it still original?

Depends on when it happened, and that's an elastic bit of string. Convention would suggest that if that happened " in period" it would still be original. How long though? A week, a year, 3 years?  I would suggest if it happened in the warranty period that would be fair enough. Certainly the Ferrari Classique situation is a joke IMHO. They would say if they built an engine from last nut and bolt TODAY, the car would be original. That's as laughable as when they certified an Enzo that had burnt to the ground and just built another with the same serial number !

And so it goes on.
If anyone other than numbsculls are interested, I can go on.

I have no doubt you will !



Offline Ferrari Fissatore

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Who decided/s that glass is wear and tear, and paint (which sustains much more wear and tear) is not a wear and tear item?

Paint can be bought from a part number and fitted as per manufacturers guidelines just like any other part.



Offline mondi

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When it comes to Mustang Concours for example:

Original means the car is still in the paint that it left the factory in and mostly have the original parts that are stamped with the OEM stamps, etc, etc. As soon as new paint goes on, it's restored!!!!

Restored means that the car is restored back to original condition, as per the data plate but the use of repro parts is acceptable.

A Restomod is just that, restoring the car but making it better, ie. Better paint, engine, gearbox, etc, etc…

I had a restored car in a show once, I lost points because the paint was done in 2-Pak paint(not original paint type) and the panel gaps were far to uniform…..



Offline Cuso


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Who decided/s that glass is wear and tear, and paint (which sustains much more wear and tear) is not a wear and tear item?

I replace windscreens on average of every 18 months, once they get a few too many tiny marks on them I find it safer to spend $250 on a new one and have a clear view when driving into the sun.

I have been using the same guy for 7 years, he doesn't know anyone else that does it either, myabe I'm weird?



Offline 360c

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Who decided/s that glass is wear and tear, and paint (which sustains much more wear and tear) is not a wear and tear item?

Paint can be bought from a part number and fitted as per manufacturers guidelines just like any other part.

A windscreen is a physical part that you buy and fit. I dont believe you can march into Ferrari spare parts and use a part number to order some paint. I have never seen paint listed in any Ferrari parts manual anywhere.

Having said that, Ferrari do try and limit access to their "special colours", of which Rosso Mugello is one. You can take your car to any shop; but only the authorised repair facility will be able to order the paint from the manufacturer. You can try and match it; but that's easier said than done with some of the modern weirdo paints.



Offline mondi

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You can try and match it; but that's easier said than done with some of the modern weirdo paints.


Hmmmm, that depends......



Offline Ferrari Fissatore

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And if you buy your tyres or oil from Ferrari, is it more original than buying from the manufacturer or other distributor of the exact same item?

Bottom line.... If it looks original, and tests to be original, and an official from the manufacturer or other respected/appointed authority declares it original... Its original.

Underlined in bold...... Neither tdc911 nor anyone here can truly decide or declare.

Some of us can speak from opinion, some from fact, some from profession. And some, all of the above.



Offline 360c

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Hmmmm, that depends......

I know of several examples where various people have tried...........and failed.  The Formula 1 paint that my Michelotto is painted with is an example. Only available to the Ferrari racing team and very well connected private individuals with close ties to the race team. Several local guys tried to colour match it without success, close but different enough to pick pretty easily.  I ended up buying it through Maranello Motorsport who ran one of Schumachers old F1 cars at the time. Cost an insane amount of money too; but that was to be expected.

Even if you have the paint, you can have trouble matching existing paintwork. Especially pearls and matts and weird shades like Rosso Mugello that flip heaps even though they are not metallic. That comes down to painting technique and Ferrari themselves don't get that right. My Scud had 3M film from new (I have pre-delivery invoice) and when I got it the car had differences between panels and it had never been repaired.



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