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Offline Ferrari Fissatore

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  • Joined: Jan 2007

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Fucked if I know, that's what I pay Phil for  :D

I've never watched (probably because I've never been at the track that early); but I don't think it's too hard once you know how. If it's cold you have to preheat the fluids with a special gizmo. Flick a few switches in the right order and kick it in the guts  :thumbsup:   Flood it and you have to pull the plugs, clean and start over. Warm it up at certain revs to certain temperature. Check the wheels are not going to fall off  :scared:  Then wait for overly opinionated cheque book warrior to turn up and drive it  :p


I think that's roughly the sequence of events  :D

Perhaps Phil can explain when he's through nursing his surgically enhanced nuts  :p

Fancy hiding this in a Porsche thread... you KNOW I don't look there!

Actually, I got sent the 962C Vid on email, and I came here to post that I've found a Porsche I'd like to own!

Anyway... as always, I'll start off by disagreeing.

To drive it you need a b2 ( he has no trouble with it)   ;)

I've been lucky enough to drive it too, and didn't find it that bad. You need to understand the clutch mainly. Its designed to take some abuse, but not too much of course. If you're too careful with the clutch, you'll make it stall or bog, or go into kangaroo juice mode.

To start it up, if ambient is over 25 deg c, you don't need any prior pre heating. If below, then the cooling system needs to run a pre heater for around 20 to 40 minutes.

You need to find and connect the electronic isolator (I hide the connector so even Scott doesn't know ;) ) I reckon I've saved him tens of thousands as the engine hasn't been started for showing off!

Once de-isolated, you need to prime oil pressure, but with the fuel turned off so it doesn't fire a shot on a dry bearing.

Once oil pressure is up, then you prime the 2 stage (lift and main) fuel system, using some circuit breaker switches.

Once fuel is primed, then and only then, attempt to start it.

You need to use the throttle correctly when cold or you'll flood it. It needs some, but not too much. Not enough + flood. Too much = flood.

If you partially flood it, you have maybe 1 chance of getting it started and clearing itself. If you miss that chance, it'll be ~60 minutes before you get another go. As you'll need to remove all plugs to be cleaned/dried/changed.

Plugs are $28 each (x8), so you don't want to go wasting them.

Once it starts, it requires some patience with the throttle for around 5 minutes, until it reaches a certain water temperature, then it will idle at around 2500rpm on its own.

It has no cooling fans as standard, so you need to drive it. But I've added fans to Scotts.

To get a gear you treat it exactly like a motorcycle. its clutchgear, not clutch - - - - gear. Otherwise it'll dog itself.

Once rolling, its slight lift and clutchless up shifts with a gently preloaded stick from 2nd, but use it for 1st-2nd is better. Down shifts need the clutch really but it's quite possible without. Depends whos paying!

It's MUCH easier to drive than Scott admits too IMO. :tilt:

And having it sit in the shed while the half cocked track tryer 430 Scud bleeds him dry is beyond comprehension to me!




Offline dkabab




Offline Ferrari Fissatore

  • Soap Dodger

  • Joined: Jan 2007

  • Drives: its obsession
  • Location: under its skin
Wait.... I thought it was paddle shift, no?

Standard N-GT and GT are yes, but GTC and the Veloqx cars are full Hewland sequentials with stick.



Offline 360c

  • 300kph+ club
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  • Joined: Apr 2006

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Anyway... as always, I'll start off by disagreeing.

To drive it you need a b2 ( he has no trouble with it)   ;)

I've been lucky enough to drive it too, and didn't find it that bad. You need to understand the clutch mainly. Its designed to take some abuse, but not too much of course. If you're too careful with the clutch, you'll make it stall or bog, or go into kangaroo juice mode.

Perhaps you and Brettski could go 50/50 and buy it off me then, especially as it's so cheap to run and a great future investment  :p


To start it up, if ambient is over 25 deg c, you don't need any prior pre heating. If below, then the cooling system needs to run a pre heater for around 20 to 40 minutes.

You need to find and connect the electronic isolator (I hide the connector so even Scott doesn't know ;) ) I reckon I've saved him tens of thousands as the engine hasn't been started for showing off!
Once de-isolated, you need to prime oil pressure, but with the fuel turned off so it doesn't fire a shot on a dry bearing.

Once oil pressure is up, then you prime the 2 stage (lift and main) fuel system, using some circuit breaker switches.

Once fuel is primed, then and only then, attempt to start it.

You need to use the throttle correctly when cold or you'll flood it. It needs some, but not too much. Not enough + flood. Too much = flood.

If you partially flood it, you have maybe 1 chance of getting it started and clearing itself. If you miss that chance, it'll be ~60 minutes before you get another go. As you'll need to remove all plugs to be cleaned/dried/changed.

Plugs are $28 each (x8), so you don't want to go wasting them.

Once it starts, it requires some patience with the throttle for around 5 minutes, until it reaches a certain water temperature, then it will idle at around 2500rpm on its own.


Nobody is going to start this one up and drive off under it's own steam  :D
Bit puzzled about the hidden isolator switch  :scratchchin:  Not about to cold start it  and rev the tits off a $100k engine
to impress someone.


It has no cooling fans as standard, so you need to drive it. But I've added fans to Scotts.

To get a gear you treat it exactly like a motorcycle. its clutchgear, not clutch - - - - gear. Otherwise it'll dog itself.

Once rolling, its slight lift and clutchless up shifts with a gently preloaded stick from 2nd, but use it for 1st-2nd is better. Down shifts need the clutch really but it's quite possible without. Depends whos paying!

It's MUCH easier to drive than Scott admits too IMO. :tilt:


Everyone except Brettski has found it quite difficult to get off the line. Changing gear once rolling is pretty easy once you have the hang of it. Very much like a motorcycle as you say.

And having it sit in the shed while the half cocked track tryer 430 Scud bleeds him dry is beyond comprehension to me!

I'm mystified as to why you find it hard to comprehend as it's been discussed a few times. It's a performance orientated road car that will almost certainly only ever be used on the road. I took it on the track once to see what it was like and not surprisingly it was pretty underwhelming. As you say, road cars are for the road, race cars are for the track. If I feel like doing a track day I'll take the N-GT as it's a lot more suited and a lot more fun in that environment. So for me the fact that the Scud is a "half cocked track tryer" is pretty irrelevant. As for "bleeding me dry" well it's actually pretty cheap to run, depreciation excluded. The only reason it's cost me a few scheckles is my propensity for embarking on crazy projects  :p
No fault of the cars by any stretch.



Offline Ferrari Fissatore

  • Soap Dodger

  • Joined: Jan 2007

  • Drives: its obsession
  • Location: under its skin
Perhaps you and Brettski could go 50/50 and buy it off me then, especially as it's so cheap to run and a great future investment  :p

Nobody is going to start this one up and drive off under it's own steam  :D
Bit puzzled about the hidden isolator switch  :scratchchin:  Not about to cold start it  and rev the tits off a $100k engine
to impress someone.
Everyone except Brettski has found it quite difficult to get off the line. Changing gear once rolling is pretty easy once you have the hang of it. Very much like a motorcycle as you say.

I'm mystified as to why you find it hard to comprehend as it's been discussed a few times. It's a performance orientated road car that will almost certainly only ever be used on the road. I took it on the track once to see what it was like and not surprisingly it was pretty underwhelming. As you say, road cars are for the road, race cars are for the track. If I feel like doing a track day I'll take the N-GT as it's a lot more suited and a lot more fun in that environment. So for me the fact that the Scud is a "half cocked track tryer" is pretty irrelevant. As for "bleeding me dry" well it's actually pretty cheap to run, depreciation excluded. The only reason it's cost me a few scheckles is my propensity for embarking on crazy projects  :p
No fault of the cars by any stretch.

I'd buy it a heartbeat if I thought I'd get much chance to drive it! (and I had a lazy $~$200k sitting around)

I could come to your house (on a warm day) and drive it in 2 minutes. Could hook up the pre heater on a cooler day and have a cuppa tea and a few tim tams while waiting, then drive it in 30 minutes!

Hidden connector protects from all kinds of dramas! happily tell you if you even needed... more for the places it gets stored at.... 99% of problems are battery/current abuse related (remember the dash saga)

Michelotto Engine refresh is currently from 25k to 40k Euro depending on cycle etc. But yes, to buy one is around $100k. Current single cam V8 supercar shitbox engines are practically double that! A refresh would last you 10 years or more as a track day warrior.

I just don't get the (A) need for a "RAW" road car (when you have a race car, and (B), I don't get "ignoring" the depreciation and accessory spend for negligible road speed gains on an already sensational car. I'd rather a nice smooth quietish comfortable std 430 for half the price, with minimal mods. (slight lowering, aggressive alignment, sports seats, big steel brakes) Knowing the race car is sitting there when urges arise. A std 430 is a weapon on the road.




Offline 360c

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I'd buy it a heartbeat if I thought I'd get much chance to drive it! (and I had a lazy $~$200k sitting around)

I'll give you a T-Rex style installment plan  :thumbsup:

I could come to your house (on a warm day) and drive it in 2 minutes. Could hook up the pre heater on a cooler day and have a cuppa tea and a few tim tams while waiting, then drive it in 30 minutes!

I obviously should have said anyone but you  :doh:


Hidden connector protects from all kinds of dramas! happily tell you if you even needed... more for the places it gets stored at.... 99% of problems are battery/current abuse related (remember the dash saga)
Furry muff. I remember the dash drama, wonder if it's similar to the current  Scud tail lights/indicator debacle  :scratchchin:

Michelotto Engine refresh is currently from 25k to 40k Euro depending on cycle etc. But yes, to buy one is around $100k. Current single cam V8 supercar shitbox engines are practically double that! A refresh would last you 10 years or more as a track day warrior.

Still a bloody expensive engine refresh, and it's not including transport or taxes.

I just don't get the (A) need for a "RAW" road car (when you have a race car, and (B), I don't get "ignoring" the depreciation and accessory spend for negligible road speed gains on an already sensational car. I'd rather a nice smooth quietish comfortable std 430 for half the price, with minimal mods. (slight lowering, aggressive alignment, sports seats, big steel brakes) Knowing the race car is sitting there when urges arise. A std 430 is a weapon on the road.

Well there are a few components in answer to that lot:
1) I'm not interested in poncing about Chapel Street in a Ferrari  :fap: If I am going for a drive in my Ferrari, I really am going for a DRIVE  :burnout: I am therefore more interested in a car that's light, powerful and fast. My Scuderia post project is about 180kg lighter and has about 50hp/60Nm more than your typical standard 430. Doubt it would be a negligible road speed gain; but even if it was, it would feel a whole lot nicer to drive.
2) Depreciation and cost of the mods (which were optional after all) is still less than the N-GT has cost. You know I keep track of all that  :doh:
3) It's all about the smiles per mile per $ spent. I love race cars; but the value just isn't there for me. I love to take the Scud for a lap of Tassie once or twice a year, and just one of those trips gives me the same km's as FIVE YEARS of the
N-GT........... at 1/4 of the cost of ONE DAY spent at the track with the N-GT.  I can walk into the garage and take the Scud out whenever the mood or opportunity presents. The N-GT requires transport, crew, a track day and some forward planning and $$$.

It is highly unlikely that I will ever buy anything in future that can't be driven on the road. You can still buy race cars- just old ones. Some of those will destroy most modern street cars on the road anyway.



Offline Ferrari Fissatore

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  • Joined: Jan 2007

  • Drives: its obsession
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I hear what you say, but the $/mile equation still has me flummoxxed.

The scud still has less than 10k km on.

Its sucked about $350k in depreciation (not all yours), and has had a LOT spent on it....

So, whats the current $/km for it?



Offline 360c

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I hear what you say, but the $/mile equation still has me flummoxxed.
The scud still has less than 10k km on.
Its sucked about $350k in depreciation (not all yours), and has had a LOT spent on it....
So, whats the current $/km for it?

I bought both the Scud and the N-GT second hand; but it really doesn't matter if you wanted to take new prices. The N-GT
was $750k new and if we use your current value of $200k (I wish), you're looking at $550k in depreciation ALONE.  Just on the depreciation, let alone adding running costs gives the Scuderia the win on the $/km equation.

BTW, I have done about 4500km in the Scud (and it was AWOL for 12 of the 24mths) and circa 2000km's in 10 years
with the N-GT.



Offline Ferrari Fissatore

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  • Joined: Jan 2007

  • Drives: its obsession
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The race car has done what? 20,000 RACE KM, which is like 200,000 road km.

And is the actual British GT championship winner...

An irreplaceble part of motorsport history.

Now what its worth/cost can be discussed till the cows come home, but to be what it is, some would argue has come at a reasonable cost.



Offline 360c

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The race car has done what? 20,000 RACE KM, which is like 200,000 road km.

And is the actual British GT championship winner...

An irreplaceble part of motorsport history.

Now what its worth/cost can be discussed till the cows come home, but to be what it is, some would argue has come at a reasonable cost.

No idea how many km's the race car has done overall or what their running costs would have been. All I know is the supposed km's on the current engine; but I think you could take that with a grain of salt.
If you look at the second hand values, the story is the same. Depreciation on the Michelotto is circa $270k and on the Scuderia circa $100k. Running costs/restoration costs/project costs still tip the scales in the Scuds favour.

Yes, the Michelotto has some good history for sure. At the moment it's worth nothing; but in the future, who knows.



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