[Ferrari Fissatore]

FF... you're a harsh man, I think we need to see more of your driving prowess, rather than your commenting prowess   

you shoulda been at Eastern creek the day I hired the radical then!

mega value... amazing cars.

I've said it enough times... I'm WELL past driving road cars on the track.... i'll do it for favours/demos to people etc, but not for my own pleasure.

I want a race car.........

I spent most of today prepping the Michelotto 360GT of Ted... gunna blow the cobwebs out of it this weekend at Phillip island... current state champ has NO)1 on the door.... yum yum

and it's for sale!

Michelotto cars are gunna go through the roof... currently ~$300k inc full spares inc engine... will hit $2M in 10 years I reckon.

[265T]

for Phill 


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuAmgPyYEZo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuAmgPyYEZo</a>

[fivesix]

the gravel at the end spooks me still... 

[Ferrari Fissatore]

for Phill 


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuAmgPyYEZo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuAmgPyYEZo</a>

so there's one corner worthy of mention 

nicely taken that man 

not enough driving time for time taken to run event for me.

[360c]

I want a race car.........

I spent most of today prepping the Michelotto 360GT of Ted... gunna blow the cobwebs out of it this weekend at Phillip island... current state champ has NO)1 on the door.... yum yum

and it's for sale!

Michelotto cars are gunna go through the roof... currently ~$300k inc full spares inc engine... will hit $2M in 10 years I reckon.

I own a 360 Michelotto, so if ANYONE has a vested interest in them being a $2 million car it's me.

Now Philly, if you truly believe they will appreciate to $2 million in 10 years then you should sell whatever it takes and "invest" the money in mine (or Ted's) because you will be getting a far, far greater return on your money than is available in any other investment class that I am aware of.
Every Michelotto that is in Australia is for sale at the moment and has been for YEARS. Lets just say that the buyers are not beating down the door to get into one.


IMHO the values are not going anywhere for some time to come. They are too old to be competitive; but not old enough to be collectible. There is no viable international race class for them to run in, they require specialist backup and spares and the running costs are eye watering by most folks standards.
As I have said before, there is nothing for the money that comes close to one of these for driving experience; but the smiles per mile per dollar spent is WAY out of whack.

[Ferrari Fissatore]

I own a 360 Michelotto, so if ANYONE has a vested interest in them being a $2 million car it's me.

Now Philly, if you truly believe they will appreciate to $2 million in 10 years then you should sell whatever it takes and "invest" the money in mine (or Ted's) because you will be getting a far, far greater return on your money than is available in any other investment class that I am aware of.
Every Michelotto that is in Australia is for sale at the moment and has been for YEARS. Lets just say that the buyers are not beating down the door to get into one.


IMHO the values are not going anywhere for some time to come. They are too old to be competitive; but not old enough to be collectible. There is no viable international race class for them to run in, they require specialist backup and spares and the running costs are eye watering by most folks standards.
As I have said before, there is nothing for the money that comes close to one of these for driving experience; but the smiles per mile per dollar spent is WAY out of whack.

I think they will. Right now for example, a Michelotto GT racer costs about the same as a 360 road car spyder... and people seem to keep buying those... where do you think THEY'LL be in 10 years??????

Look at ~20 year old Michelotto "other" cars... like F40 LM, 333SP, etc... at least $1m US, maybe double that....

and go back further and look at 308 Michelotto cars.... $1m Euro or more

I'd buy a 360 GT (or N-GT) in a hearbeat if I could afford to buy it AND destroy it. But as I could only barely afford the first bit of that equation, I'm out. I couldn't enjoy it properly if I couldn't run at full speed, and I couldn't insure it.

And if I owned one I'd use it a lot. And I'm SO grateful to have driven yours in anger (or semi anger anyway)

They're not as bad as you imply to run. If you used yours more regularly the cost per km would TUMBLE. You could use tyres for 2 or 3 track days if you did it over 4-6 months, but you need new ones if you don't use them for a year or so.

I've seen your bills.... ( ) I'd say about $3k per track day on average, Including tyres and closed transporter and staff would be easily achievable with more regular use. And if you actually raced it, you'd get 3 or even 4 days use for the same transport and logistics costs, with only a small amount extra staff cost.

When you run only one day every blue moon, you need a new set of tyres, the years prep/servicing in readiness and a few other incidentals that make it more like $5k for the day out.

Also, they are actually much easier to run than you might think. A Michelotto spec GT car needs no pre warming or special treatment like the Veloqx car, and it's easy to start and run on the day. The Veloqx car is also easier than you might imagine, but there are a few knacks to learn.

"I" could easily run one by myself AND DRIVE IT at a  track day, as could any mechanically savvy guy after maybe 2 or 3 single day outings with my help to get them going.

[mhh]

Good to hear about the hillclimb. Pity the thread crashed out though. 

[360c]

Hard to address all those points with factual backup without writing war and peace. Just a few points:

1) You can't really compare a Michelotto buyer with a 360 spider buyer. They share nothing in common other than a ballpark financial spend. People keep buying 360 Hairdresser's because the majority of modern Ferrari buyers are cafe cruising wanker wannabes. Lots of wankers with $ out there. Very few people with the same $ want a 360 Michelotto that you can't drive on the street and costs a mint to run.

2) Comparisons with the other Michelottos. The F40 LM was relatively cheap for years. A few years back I nearly bought a GTE for $450k US and it was one with mega race history. Then recently prices went nuts because they were provisionally accepted for the Historic Challenge. The catch was that any example had to be certified by the Classiche program. Guess what? NO Michelotto car is Classiche eligible (long story). The facts were that only 2 (from memory) cars left Ferrari as they were raced and those were the only eligible cars. Few people realised this. Guess what? The Historic Challenge is now defunct and the values went south as a result.
The 333SP is cheaper than new by a fair margin. They are not eligible for anything of note and prices are going nowhere. Very hard to sell indeed and very expensive to run.
308 GTB Michelotto- These languished for decades and were close to impossible to sell. Think cheap, cheap, cheap. Then they became eligible for Historic rallying (which had become huge in Europe) and values went north very quickly. As for 1 million Euro, not in a million years. There was one car advertised for that amount; but never sold. The going rate is circa $500k US +/- depending on the car and provenance.

Running costs. Suggesting the costs would decrease if I used it more might look correct to the average punter. The trouble with that is the real heavy duty costs are not crew, transport and tyres. The real money is elsewhere. The engines are "lifed" to 4000 race km's after which they are supposed to be refreshed. Michelotto (you are supposed to ship them back for refresh/rebuild) will lighten your wallet by about $45k. Full rebuild is due once it has done another 4000km's. From memory something like $75k. If you destroy the engine a new one is (was) $120k. That's Ted's spare engine correct?
Additionally, just about every mechanical component on the car is also lifed. Similarly insane pricing. You can get some stuff done locally for less; but still bloody expensive. Remember Big Tommies Michelotto spec Challenge engine you built him? The engine cost the wrong side of $100k according to Tommie.
I still have painful memories of my carbon clutch giving up after the first few laps- game over. If it needed a new one rather than adjustment, I recall the cost was $9k, and that is a consumable item like tyres and brakes. Yikes.

Racing these things makes for exponentially bigger bills. I happen to know that one owner spent over $200k a year running his very cost effectively. Back in the Prancing Horse days, they were spending WAY more than that per season.

Maybe they are easier to use if you have the right mechanical aptitude and your own transport. You would still need specialist backup when it shit itself, and that would be sooner rather than later.

Being a bit anally retentive I have recorded every cost of running this car since I got it. Shame I did really as it would be so much better not to know

[360c]

. Pity the thread crashed out though. 

Like that has never happened before

[Ferrari Fissatore]

ok, well many people are looking for somewhere to put their stock market money lately it seems... so a pedigree race car is a good option.

I think you've underpriced the Mich' 308's... The good ones are not offered for sale often, and when they are, the price is usually hidden from public.

F40LM... still BIG bucks and were  a great way of enjoying some money, if not a true "investment"

Michelotto engines are lifed at 5000km, not 4... but whatever, in club use they can go easily to 8k and beyond. Early versions failed , but that cause was long ago fixed.

yes, a new GT engine is ~$120k, and a refresh is ~$50k

Tommie never had a Michelotto GT engine. not even close, it was just a hotted up challenge engine. I don't know what TR invoiced him, but I have done 3 others and they're around $45k.

yes, your clutch is ~$9k, but I shimmed it and it will take at least another shimming before needing to be replaced. And it'll just need plates, but ~$5k for sure.

But you could use a challenge clutch/flywheel on a Michelotto ar, your Veloqx car is modified beyond Michelotto specs.

Yes, I'm sure you've saved all your bills... but you've spent at lot more than you needed to remember... it's nice to have a perfect body, but kinda impratical on a race car. Teds car look 90% as good as yours for a fraction of the cost.

Ted has raced his for 4 years, he did GT AND state rounds AND some other interstate stuff... his costs are significant, but better than your figures.

AND he's wearing No1 this weekend in it at Phillip Island... reigning champ