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Offline shack

  • 300kph+ club
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good to know that we're making an impression on some experienced drivers (of our competitors cars). Obviously I'm slightly biased but this chap has experienced first hard what a truly awesome tool the MP4 (or 12c as it should be known!) is on the road and on the track. For any reasons it's capabilities haven't translated into sales so they really are a brilliant performance bargain especially as our later models (650s and most recently the 675LT) are better still so have had a big negative impact on residual values for first owners.

Fundamentally there are two key reasons why the 12c crapped all over the 996 (besides the engine being in a more sensible place!):-

The first is the suspension system itself which uses (and builds on) technology banned form world rally cars, ie the hydraulic anti-roll bar which we've improved upon by adding effectively a similar system linking the front and rear of the car (a bit like old minis with the hydrolastic suspension). this allow the car to pump fluid from one damper to the other and get some really big benefits form, it which are really well described in this article (2012 McLaren MP4-12C: Suspension Walkaround) the biggest advantages are that in a corner the car is very stiff in roll (and this is adjustable by increasing the pressure in the roll circuit) but the car is still compliant in single wheel bump which is not the case with a stiff traditional anti roll bar, this is called the warp mode when one wheel hits a bump and the car tries to twist, in this car the fluid just flows freely to the diagonally opposite damper and the bump is almost not felt. Ironically its this suspension system that is also one of the 12c's worst features in that the suspension is so smooth that it means the car feels a bit line a magic carpet ride and hence misses out on some of the drama and excitement that many people want form a 200mph car.

the second is another banned motorsport technology (this time from F1) and this is most likely the reason the car seemed to disappear into the corner at some unfeasible speed.....brake steer. I was working for McLaren racing when we developed this in 1998 and I know that straight our of the box Mika Hakkinen was lapping Silverstone 2 seconds a lap quicker just due to the addition of the brake steer system with little or know optimization. It was so successful the FIA banned it after the first race ti was used in. On the f1 cars is was essentially a manual system out ours in now fully automated. What this does in under certain conditions (track mode, training throttle turn-in) it will drag the inside rear brake which helps to rotate the car into the apex without overloading the front tyres, this gives for an uncannily precise turn-in at speed a lot more than a car with a limited slip diff might be able to achieve (and is the main reason our car doesn't have an lsd)

The system the guy is describing with the downshifting into the corner to be honest doesn't add very much to the performance and is relatively simple. It's what we call "pull and hold" downshift and it does what it says really. If you keep the downshift paddle held when braking it will keep downshifting at the "optimum" time ensuring you're right in the middle of the highest torque region. It's no different to just repeatedly pulling the downshift paddle at the right point, it does a nice slick rpm matched (heel and toe) downshift and minimizes the disturbance at the rear end allowing a nice neat and confident late turn-in. If the chap in the 996 isn't a very very good driver and is focusing on his heel and toe technique too much then he'll actually be losing a lot of lap time as it's more important to just nail the braking and turn-in points than to get perfect downshifting in my opinion.

if you've never had a ride in one of our cars you really should try to get yourself a test drive, I absolutely guarantee it will change your perceptions of quick permanently. the capabilities of the car are so broad, from smooth cruiser to track weapon at the flick of a switch and my DCT transmission gives you relentless acceleration. On most cars you get a chance to take breath at each gear change due to the momentary let-up in acceleration but on our DCT you don't in fact during a gear shaft the car actually accelerates harder than when in gear due to what we call "inertia push" this is dragging the engine speed down using the oncoming clutch whilst keeping the throttle wide open. This actually generates an additional xxx(proprietary)Nm of torque during the gear change that pushes you back in the seat even harder for a split second. The effect on passengers is quite amusing because I think the shift is when most people riding in a fast car take breath so when this let up doesn't come it genuinely leaves the passenger breathless because they forget to breathe!

One of our old employees now works in New York for McLaren so if you did want to arrange a test drive I may be able to help out with that.

the 675LT is our new offering and is much quicker on track that a 12c or 650s. I've heard it'll lap some tracks quicker that a P1.......but not as quick as a P1GTR obviously. Not sure if you've followed that project but that;'s been the main thing I've been working on for over a year and we've just gone into production with it. I had a few laps round the top gear test track in that a few weeks ago. Needles to say it's a whole different ball game to any road car and laps at about the same sort of pace as a GT3 car, but is much quicker in a straight line. how does 0-100mph in 4.5s grab you!?



Offline Fil-Ski


  • Joined: Feb 2009

  • Name: Scuderia



Offline shack

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Was part of a thread but of more interest is the tech in the McLaren



Offline mhh

  • Chief Test Pilot

  • Joined: Feb 2006

  • Location: Adelaide
The poor guy gets a bit carried away at the end. 0-100mph in 4.5 seconds! :o



Offline looney


  • Joined: Mar 2007

  • Drives: VW Beetle
Why does he talk about the 996?

Because they thought it apt to compare it to a model superseded 7 years earlier lol



Offline Aircon

  • Master Baiter 300kph+ club
  • Who said it couldn't be done?

  • Joined: Mar 2007

  • Drives: Electric everything
  • Location: Melbourne, Australia
  • Name: Peter
Because they thought it apt to compare it to a model superseded 7 years earlier lol

A bit weird!

Very clever with that downshift thing. Did you owners know about that?
I love my car. Buy your own



Offline dkabab

A bit weird!

Very clever with that downshift thing. Did you owners know about that?

i didn't know, but f1 has had it for many years. i would be surprised if other cars don't do it...

actually, mhh, what was the function in the lp640 if you hold one paddle back for some time... i vaguely remember it doing something



Offline jamesatfish


  • Joined: Oct 2009

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From someone considering a McLaren for my next car, thanks for posting this.  The explanation of some of the tech - particularly the brake steering - is very interesting.



Offline shack

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The poor guy gets a bit carried away at the end. 0-100mph in 4.5 seconds! :o

You don't think its possible?



Offline dkabab

You don't think its possible?

maybe with slicks.... but not impossible

SSC Ultimate Aero TT - [2008] 0 to 100 mph time - 4.6 seconds
Ariel Atom V8 500 - [2008] 0 to 100 mph time - 5.4 seconds
McLaren MP4-12C 3.8L V8 Twin Turbo - [2011] 0 to 100 mph time - 6.1 seconds


http://www.autosnout.com/Cars-0-100mph-Times-List.php



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