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Offline carmooch


  • Joined: Dec 2010

  • Name: George
Dunno about that.........from the EPA doco.....
If that were the case then the Highway Patrol cars would be defectable themselves.

The new FPV supercharged V8 engines use a bi-modal exhaust and pod filter air intake from factory, both have always been very taboo mods for the EPA yet here they are on police cars.

If it can be manually adjusted to increase volume below the set noise limitation rpm's it is illegal.



Offline mondi

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These aren't a temporary defeat devices by definition, it can be argued that they are actually a system- more restricted than standard.
The original Ferrari system opens the exhaust valves about 4000 RMP, these are operated by the TCU. The system I'm fitting (and other systems with valves),  actually doesn't allow the  valves to be opened by the TCU and keeps the noise level quieter than the original system - above  4000 RPM. Unless of course it is activated - which would only be done on track days etc
Some non-valved after market systems dispense with the valve system altogether - hence they are louder than standard system - all the time. They could be defined as a permanent defeat system.

There is no problems with these systems if they are Factory fitted – but as soon as you change the exhaust or anything else you are then in Modified vehicle territory and you are then bound by the rules set out for a modified vehicle. They don’t have to prove anything, it is you who has to provide the proof.

Where aftermarket systems can breach EPA and other tossers like that, is the noise level - which varies state to state.

No – it does not. The EPA is Federal, so it is not a state by state thing…..

If for example, a person with a valved system was pulled over - and there was no remote activating device (FOB) to be found (or it was hidden on the body of the driver - noting the EPA don't have powers of search for people in these situations - but the police do),  it could easily be argued that the system was a permanently restricted system, more so than the original system that opens the valves after 4000 RPM.
 This couldn't be argued if the system was hard wired to a switch in the cabin. Of course if that switch doesn't work (or stopped working as a wire fell off - about the time you were pulled over) and the system was permanently restricted - you would be below the noise level and not have a temporary  defeat device - it would be permanently restricted.  I think most courts would take notice of this and it could be strongly contested.

Again, it’s up to you to prove – I have had plenty of experience with the EPA and court and I can tell you that it is costly and time consuming. 

I believe that cars can now be impounded under the Hoon laws for Excessive noise as well....

I think it just an academic point though, I think if you drive your exotic quietly around residential areas and niosey in more remote places - I think you would be very very unlucky to be breached regardless of what system you had.

I am not saying any of this becuase I agree with it, but I do know that the Powers That Be are cracking down big time. Once upon a time they would leave people alone with Exotics but I have noticed that they are now picking on everybody regardless. I am just saying is all, you may drive around and never get pulled over......who knows. But if you do get pulled over then the rules are the rules, regardless if we agree or disagree.......



Offline mondi

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If that were the case then the Highway Patrol cars would be defectable themselves.

The new FPV supercharged V8 engines use a bi-modal exhaust and pod filter air intake from factory, both have always been very taboo mods for the EPA yet here they are on police cars.


Is this a factory fitted "Mod" or option???? If so then it has to be within ADRs, and if it is then it's legal. Once we start modifying a vehicle from the factory "standards" we are bound by the Rules but if it comes out of the factory like that and is covered by ADRs then it's OK.

If it can be manually adjusted to increase volume below the set noise limitation rpm's it is illegal.

Source???? Just like to clarify......



Offline carmooch


  • Joined: Dec 2010

  • Name: George
Is this a factory fitted "Mod" or option???? If so then it has to be within ADRs, and if it is then it's legal. Once we start modifying a vehicle from the factory "standards" we are bound by the Rules but if it comes out of the factory like that and is covered by ADRs then it's OK.

Source???? Just like to clarify......
That is factory standard on all FPVs, both consumer and police spec.

As a mod, an exhaust is legal as long as it is within noise levels and maintains the cat in the same position. A pod is also legal as long as it is fully enclosed from the engine bay. Even a blow off valve is legal as long as it doesn't vent into atmosphere.

Honestly I'd love to provide a source but the RTA is hopeless and only some of this information is provided in plain black and white.

This is the best I could find on the variable exhaust:

The Regulation also makes it an offence to use temporary noise reduction devices or packing in vehicle exhausts. This includes items such as baffles in the exhaust system that have not been welded/riveted in place, or items that are adjustable such as valves, or materials introduced into the exhaust system, such as steel wool. These items must not be used to defeat a noise test.
However a defence is provided for any:
- vehicle that, at the time of manufacture, had items such as baffles that were not welded or riveted in place or an adjustable device in the exhaust system, or a replacement that is equivalent to that fitted by the manufacturer



Offline mondi

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Honestly I'd love to provide a source but the RTA is hopeless and only some of this information is provided in plain black and white.



Yep - that is one of the biggest issues!! Information!! I really think they reckon if we don't have all the correct information, they can pull the wool.........

I am not saying that you shouldn't do the Mods, hell, I have had some very heavily Modded vehicles in my time and still do. All I am saying is be careful, it's not like the good old days where you could get away with a lot of crap. If they can nail you they will and hard!!!



Offline carmooch


  • Joined: Dec 2010

  • Name: George
Definitely, I've made sure all my mods are legal and compliant. The problem is though that any cop on a bad day could still send me to the EPA "just to confirm" and I'd be out of pocket.  :(



Offline vegas

  • It puts the lotion on its skinor it gets the hose

  • Joined: Nov 2009

  • Drives: Ferrari
  • Location: Austraila
"There is no problems with these systems if they are Factory fitted – but as soon as you change the exhaust or anything else you are then in Modified vehicle territory and you are then bound by the rules set out for a modified vehicle." Mondi - yes this part is true.

"They don’t have to prove anything, it is you who has to provide the proof."

No Mondi - that is incorrect, it's called the burden of proof - an less your State Authorty has a reverse burden provision and has made is a strict and absolute offence. This is very rare (as in the absence of such a clause - it's unconsituational.) 

"No – it does not. The EPA is Federal, so it is not a state by state thing….."

Sorry Mondi - The various EPA laws are enforced by State authority - not to be confussed with the Commonwealth EPA that has a similar but different charter - The Commonwealth EPA doesn;t in any state enforce noise laws in any State. eg Qld http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/legisltn/current/e/envprota94.pdf - similar arrangent in NSW )


"Again, it’s up to you to prove – I have had plenty of experience with the EPA and court and I can tell you that it is costly and time consuming." Sorry to hear thay are giving you a hard time -   

"I believe that cars can now be impounded under the Hoon laws for Excessive noise as well...."
Yes Mndi - true, depends on the state though - nothing to do with Cth EPA.

" But if you do get pulled over then the rules are the rules, regardless if we agree or disagree......".

Yes - I agree, rules are rules and it remain the prosecuting authorties onus to prove their case - that's where the arguments I suggest can be made.

No one has to take my free legal advice - but please don;t be bullied by these people and remember a cop with a bad day - still has the same responisilities to demonstrate their case ot the applicable standard of proof - Beyond reasonable doubt or On the balance of probablitities.

It puts the lotion on its skin, or it gets the hose again.



Offline Nobleambitions

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No Mondi - that is incorrect, it's called the burden of proof - an less your State Authorty has a reverse burden provision and has made is a strict and absolute offence. This is very rare (as in the absence of such a clause - it's unconsituational.) 
But many summary traffic offences don't have to be proven by the state, couldn't it be possible that it's the same with these sorts of issues?



Offline mondi

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But many summary traffic offences don't have to be proven by the state, couldn't it be possible that it's the same with these sorts of issues?

Exactly - you will be issued with a fine and then it's up to you to take it to court and fight it, just like a traffic fine.

Or you will be summoned to court to answer the infringement issued by the EPA, then it's up to the EPA and you to prove each others case, I'm not a Legal Eagle, just going by what I have experienced before.

When you are Dealing with the EPA in court, for some reason it seems like you are on the back foot before you start......



Offline mondi

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Sorry Mondi - The various EPA laws are enforced by State authority - not to be confussed with the Commonwealth EPA that has a similar but different charter - The Commonwealth EPA doesn;t in any state enforce noise laws in any State. eg Qld http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/legisltn/current/e/envprota94.pdf - similar arrangent in NSW )

The laws are uniform across the board, and the EPA handle them the same in each state. The Commonwealth EPA may not enforce it but the rules are the same no matter which state. It's the local government that handles things differently, but in most cases it's the same rules that are followed. 



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